Managing Stakeholder Perception: How Product Leaders Build—and Lose—Influence
When you’re leading product in a high-growth environment, your actual impact isn’t always what gets recognized. What often matters is how it’s perceived—by your CEO, your board, your peers, and your team.
And perception isn’t accidental. It’s something you have to actively manage.
What You’ll Learn
- How to rebuild internal influence if you’ve lost it, or build it from scratch
- Whether “authenticity” is helping or hindering you as a leader.
- When to say “no” with strategic clarity to protect your personal brand
- Ways to align perception with real impact—across internal and external stakeholders
Who It’s For
You’re scaling fast. There are more voices at the table, more exec peers to align with, and less room for missteps. Your ability to navigate internal politics, external optics, and stakeholder noise is becoming as important as your product strategy itself.
Bring Your Questions
We’ll reserve time at the end for live Q&A & live mentorship. This is your chance to ask our panelists about the stakeholder dynamics, perception challenges, and brand decisions you’re navigating right now.
Don’t Miss It
Join us live Thursday, April 24, 2025 at 9am PT / 12pm ET, for a 30-minute panel discussion followed by a 15-minute Q&A and live mentorship session from execs who’ve played—and won—the perception game at scale.
Register now to join live and get their unfiltered advice.
[00:00:00]
[00:00:12] Hannah Clark: I’d like to welcome everybody to our latest community event. Uh, so every time we do these, we always get a great response.
We always see them grow. Uh, and that’s all thanks to the folks who, uh, attend them and make time their day to be with us. So thank you for making time to be with us today. Um, if you don’t know me, my name is Hannah Clark. I’m the executive editor of the Product Manager. And, uh, we will get started in a moment.
Um, but since we have a very short period of time, um, I do wanna just get a little information about, uh, who’s here, who’s attending, um, just so we get a sense of how to frame the discussion. So we posted a quick poll, uh, and please just let us know what, what’s the level of influence that you have within your organization.
Um, it doesn’t need to be data backed, it doesn’t need to be scientific, but where do you kind of perceive your level of influence right now? And that should help us kind of frame some of the, the conversation.
and without further ado, I’ll [00:01:00] introduce our guest today. So first up, we’ve got Carolyn Dal. She is the COO at America’s SAP users group, or Asia, and an executive coach dedicated to developing high performing leaders. She’s got a background in operations and organizational strategy, and she helps, uh, teams scale sustainably while empowering individuals to lead with clarity, confidence, and impact.
So, Carolyn, thank you for joining us today. Thank you. Glad to be here. So, uh, I, I’ll toss a little jeopardy question to you to kind of get us, uh, acquainted. Uh, so Carolyn, as someone who’s coached execs and run ops yourself at scale, you have seen a few things. Uh, what’s something that’s commonly touted as a leadership best practice, uh, that you think is, it maybe makes you roll your eyes a little bit?
[00:01:42] Carolyn Dolezal: Uh, one of the ones I can think of, and it’s some advice that was given to me initially as I was entering, is, uh. Like never let ’em see you sweat, lead with an iron fist and kind of goad people to their best performance. I think there’s some merit to setting high standards and encouraging people to get to the best performance, but acting like a [00:02:00] field marshal, I don’t think is effective.
I.
[00:02:03] Hannah Clark: I tend to agree. Well, thank you for joining us. Uh, next we have Kate Leto. Kate has been immersed in product management, organizational design, and personal development for 25 years. Uh, and she’s an accredited executive coach. She’s worked with senior teams and individuals at JP Morgan Chase, uh, the Financial Times, comic Relief, TUI, the Boeing Company, Merck, and many more.
Uh, so we’re honored to have her here with us today. Kate, thank you for joining us.
[00:02:25] Kate Leto: Thank you. Very happy to be here.
[00:02:27] Hannah Clark: So, Kate, you’ve led some teams as a product leader and now you coach top execs across many different industries. So what’s one belief about leadership that, uh, you have, uh, maybe held onto that coaching has changed your perspective on So.
[00:02:41] Kate Leto: Yeah. I’d say one of the, the biggest, strongest belief that I had when I entered my first product leadership role was that I had to have an all the answers, right. I had to know exactly what we needed to do. I had to be able to fix any kind of challenge that my team or the organization was walking into, that it was all on me.[00:03:00]
I needed to be the hero, like every day. And as a coach, I see how harmful that is. Not only on, you know, the individual who, if they’re actually trying to do that is, is going to face some challenges in wellness and health and, um, and mentally as well, just being able to kind of power through. Um, but also to the organization because if you’ve got, if you’re this leader who handles everyone’s challenges and problems, you’re not letting people grow.
You’re not letting people handle their own challenges and take on those, um, for themselves. So I’d say that’s the biggest mind shift I’ve had going from product leader to coach.
[00:03:39] Hannah Clark: Oh, that’s valuable insight. Well, thank you for joining us, Kate. I’m really excited to get into things with you folks. Um, so today’s session we’ll be focusing on managing stakeholder perception, how product leaders build and lose influence.
Uh, so we’ll talking, we’ll be talking about this topic in three sections. Uh, so section one will be the fact and fiction of executive leadership. We’ll go through some myths versus [00:04:00] reality and some best practices in that way. Then we’ll focus in our second section on navigating external stakeholder relationships.
And then on our final, uh, third section, we will, uh, talk about working with internal stakeholders, which I’m sure it’s what everyone is very focused on. Um, and, uh, then towards the end, like I said, we’ll be doing a q and a. So at any point if you have a question that comes to mind, please, uh, don’t hesitate to pop it into the, our q and a.
And without further ado, uh, so our first question, under fact and fiction of executive leadership, what are the most common unintentional missteps that leaders make as they transition into an executive leadership position? Uh, Kate, did you wanna take this one? Uh, from the top.
[00:04:41] Kate Leto: Sure. I mean, I think building off of what I just was, was talking about in terms of what I learned personally going from being a product leader to being an executive coach, is this idea that we have to, as as leader or executive or member of the C-suite that I.
We know it all. Um, and that we have to be [00:05:00] able to solve kind of, or that we can solve any challenge that’s coming our way. Um, I, I’ve seen it referred to, and I often use with my clients the, the phrase strategic over functioning, right? Like that we think that we need to be able to handle it all and that we can handle it all.
Um, so. I think that’s something that continues to stand out as kind of a, a problem that we’re dealing with. Um, and the lead leaders as we kinda step into these roles. It’s just that we, we kind of put it on ourselves to, to be able to take charge and handle all, all of the problems and all of, and come up with all these great solutions.
And I think it just puts us in, it puts us as leaders into a very awkward position from the get go. Right. Um. So I’d say that’s one of the biggest missteps that I’ve seen.
[00:05:49] Hannah Clark: Hmm. Carolyn, did you have anything you wanted to build onto that?
[00:05:53] Carolyn Dolezal: I think, um, as you enter into the leadership role, it is a little bit, um, just as, as, uh, Kate was talking about.
It’s not [00:06:00] a performance, it’s not performance art. There’s gotta be substance. And then how do you build your substance quickly? Because you don’t know all these things. You don’t know all the answers. What I found is, is useful is if you have a process through which you’re gonna gather information about.
Customer needs, stakeholder needs, um, staff needs, uh, um, articulate your process. Tell people how you’re going to come into this. You’re not coming on in day one with a lot of heavy pronouncements. And then listen, listen really hard and really ask those questions because, um, you want to be able to make smart decisions and you can’t do that without data and information.
And the best way to get data and information, I have found is to ask, ask at various levels and ask in various, um, pockets of interest. Hmm.
[00:06:46] Hannah Clark: Well, oh, did it? Sorry. Did you have anything to add, Kate?
[00:06:49] Kate Leto: Yeah, I was just, you know, just one other thought that I, I had about it is that, you know, when we step into leadership roles, we’re often going to be kind of modeling the leadership [00:07:00] that we’ve seen before, you know?
Mm-hmm. Be it, you know, that iron fist often is what we kind of have in the back of our minds ’cause it’s the way that we were managed perhaps, um, and other roles in other organizations and. What I’ve noticed is that we all is that there’s this tendency to, to just kind of adopt that. Style, right? And kind of try to make it our own.
And as we do that, we kinda lose our own authenticity. We lose touch with who we are and our values and what our skills really are. And kind of in many ways what got us to that role. Um, so I think that’s another common misstep is that, you know, often we’re not taught how to be a leader and much, you know, against kind of what some.
Some kind of common song concepts are that I don’t think we’re born, I don’t think there are many born leaders either. I think it’s something that we learn and something that we grow, learn it. But yeah, but we’re, it’s, it’s a developmental skill, you know, just like anything else. Um, but. [00:08:00] And, and kind of the vacuum that we often, um, kind of step into as a, as a new leader or even moving up kind of the corporate ladder into the, into the C-suite.
We don’t, we still don’t really know what we’re doing, right. We’re kind of making it up as we go along and we do have that tendency to just kind of. Grab onto what we’ve seen before and what we’ve experienced before, instead of really kind of taking the time to, to have a good understanding and build our own self-awareness of like, well, okay, who are we and how do I wanna bring that into an organization and build relationships with my.
Team, be it C-Suite team members or, you know, folks that are, are a part of my team and my organization. So I think that’s something else to be very aware of. As, as, you know, we’re stepping into it, be it our first leadership role or, you know, much higher up that ladder is, is. Unless we do take some time to step back and think about what kind of, what does it mean to be, to be a leader and how do I wanna [00:09:00] bring that into my work every day?
I think we do fall into that, that vacuum of just kind of grabbing and, and adopting what we’ve seen before, and I think that’s really dangerous.
[00:09:09] Hannah Clark: Hmm. Yes. Yeah, good point. And I think that leads really well into our next question, um, about pervasive and, um, maybe unhelpful tropes about being in the C-suite that might maybe, uh, dissuade people from feeling that they have a position there or that they would fit with that kind of a culture.
Um, or that might be just, uh, you know, set setting people up for the wrong expectations in the role. Um, so what would some of those more pervasive, um, myths look like? Uh, Carolyn, did you wanna take this one?
[00:09:37] Carolyn Dolezal: I think, uh, one of the ones that I know I had, uh, thought was true and then encountered is as your added level in the organization and you look upward.
Um, my tendency was to believe that these people were in those roles because they had things figured out and, um, the alignment was there and this is what we were aspiring to be. And then sometimes even if the modeling of the behavior wasn’t exactly what I wanted, but that leadership seemed great [00:10:00] and what I found when I actually entered the room.
Is not everybody in that room, even though we’re called the leadership team or the executive team, not everybody’s agenda and not everybody’s goals are necessarily aligned. And I assume that that’s established there and then cascaded, and that’s how we, at our earlier levels understood what to do next.
But, um, it caught of, caught me by surprise. Um, there are private agendas, there are functional agendas, there are, you know, real estate grab agendas that kind of happen through things. So just assuming that because you’re on the team. That the team has common interests is, uh, something that you wanna examine and, and test those assumptions.
And it does come from the top. And then likewise you, for your team, et cetera, to just kind of keep reinforcing that. ’cause things do shift, things drift. And then people are humans. They have their own agenda. Sometimes, uh, not everybody is aligned even though you think they should be.
[00:10:53] Hannah Clark: Keith, did you wanna add on that?
[00:10:55] Kate Leto: Yeah, I, you know, I think. To add onto that and to add onto to what I [00:11:00] was saying just a, a minute ago about some of the common missteps and the fact that we, we, leadership itself is something that we, we kind of learn through practice and we learn through trying to focus on some, on specific skills is that it’s kind of, we need to realize that just because they’re in the C-suite.
It doesn’t mean that the personal development or that leadership development stops, or that the learning stops. Right? I think a lot of times we have that kind of impression in my, in our minds, that like, well, they’re in the C-suite. They’re the CPO or the CMO. Or the CO. They must know. They must know everything that they need to know, right?
They must be really good at their jobs, and they’ve got it all up here. Um, and you know, to Carolyn’s point that it doesn’t mean that the team is aligned by any means, but it also doesn’t mean that that leader can, should stop growing right? Or can stop growing. That personal development comes to a halt the minute they step into the C-suite.
Um, so I think that’s, you know, that’s something that’s really important as [00:12:00] well because just because you’re an executive, it doesn’t mean you, you do stop growing, doesn’t mean you do stop learning. The best ones continue to evolve and continue to grow.
[00:12:10] Carolyn Dolezal: And I think toward that is that where, where do you, as a leader get your feedback?
Um, are you getting feedback? Are you listening with the intention of. Using that to kind of continue to improve and grow. And I think what’s sometimes challenging is, as you get to the higher levels, is who, who will speak to the truth to you? Who, who dares to speak the truth to you. Depending on how their experience with leadership is, like, I don’t wanna tell ’em anything they don’t already wanna hear.
Uh, and that can be extremely damaging to the organization. So it takes trust, it takes a willingness to take that feedback in. Listen. And if there’s a mistake or an error or a a, a shift acknowledging it, um, that can be really powerful in an organization. And, uh, the leader’s gotta be willing to take it on first.
And I think asking for feedback. Versus hoping people wander in and offer it because [00:13:00] they might do it to their own detriment. I think asking for feedback, listening carefully to it, and then um, acknowledging it and then saying to the organization, you’re gonna work on something I. Really holds you accountable.
And I, I think that who are your truth tellers? And make sure that you access them often.
[00:13:16] Kate Leto: Yeah. Yeah. I mean, building influence as an executive, I think one of the best ways you do that, as Carolyn is saying is, is asking for feedback, taking on board every other people’s opinions and perspectives on, you know, whatever it might be.
A new project, a new hire, a new strategy, a new direction. Um, and getting out into different areas of the organization in different levels, not just always going to the person right below you for that feedback, right. Getting into the different areas and different levels of your organization to build those relationships and ensure you’re building that habit of feedback, of asking for feedback and actually, you know, acknowledging it and taking it on board.
Mm-hmm. Um, yeah. Yeah. I think it kind of goes [00:14:00] back to this idea that just because you’re an executive doesn’t mean that. You’re not, you know, that you don’t, that there’s not areas to improve, there’s not areas to grow, and there’s not areas that you can build relationships to get some really good feedback to help you do that.
[00:14:15] Hannah Clark: Yeah, absolutely. And I, I think when you have those kinds of strong and established relationships, then people really believe and trust that you have their best interests at heart and that you’re representing, you know, their, their voice in your decision. So it makes sense. It’s, yeah, it’s strategic, but I think it’s also, you know, it’s, it’s good business and it’s makes for a much more rewarding career when you have that kind of a, uh, a smooth working relationship.
[00:14:36] Kate Leto: Yeah, it’s, I mean, it’s a sure way to get in Influe to grow influence. Um, for yourself and to be that model to others in the organization on how they can do it too. Mm-hmm.
[00:14:47] Hannah Clark: Uh, we’ll move then into our next, uh, section, which will be navigating external stakeholders. Uh, so a little bit of a change of pace.
Uh, we’ll get, we’re gonna start this one off with another poll. Uh, so, uh, tell us what’s been your [00:15:00] biggest challenge in managing external stakeholders. And this can be just helpful for us to kind of get a sense of where the challenges in the room are, uh, but we’ll move right into our, our next question, which is, uh, what are the most important habits, policies, and conversations that leaders should be having?
Uh, and committing to if they wanna build those solid relationships with external stakeholders. I know we’ve just touched a little bit on some of those internal relationships. Uh, Kate, what would you say about, uh, some of the best practices for external, uh, relationship building? I.
[00:15:27] Kate Leto: You know, I think it’s, it’s a lot of the same stuff as internal.
Mm-hmm. Um, uh, relationship building. Um, one of the things that I talk to clients quite a bit about is upfront, be it a, a new member of a team or a new external stakeholder, um, is to get really clear about what your expectations are of each other, you know, and actually make some committed agreements around those.
You know, and that could be anything from how you’re gonna communicate when times get tough, um, how you’re gonna talk about deadlines and timelines, how [00:16:00] your, what your ways of working are going to be. Um, who’s responsible for what within the relationship. I. Um, it’s actually having an ongoing conversation that you can check in on, you know, what are your expectations of each other, what are the agreements that you’re going to make and, and commit to, and make that just kind of an ongoing part of your, of your relationship.
[00:16:22] Hannah Clark: Hmm. And that’s very relevant ’cause it sounds like about 24 of us found that communication breakdowns, or inconsistency is a, a leading challenge. Um, I’m just gonna throw in here that we have about 32% said that navigating competing priorities, um, is a big challenge for external stakeholders. Does anyone wanna chime in on maybe some, um, ways to manage some of those kinds of challenges?
[00:16:44] Carolyn Dolezal: One of the things, one of the things that I’ve found helpful, and I’ve been on both sides of, I’ve been a external stakeholder providing services and I’ve been a consumer of service. Um, I find it easy to sort of cut to the chase and just ask in an early, early stage conversations, what does [00:17:00] success look like?
What does success look like for the external, uh, stakeholder and then us. Sharing what we think success looks like. Um, one of the things, for instance, as a, as a customer and, and purchasing from or, or working with external stakeholders is, um. I need them to be healthy. I need them to be viable. I need them to have, be profitable.
And so we are interested in doing that. It’s not just all about price or, or that sort of thing, but it’s like how are we gonna deliver? And um, how do we make it as smooth as possible? And I find that when we can both articulate, although what success looks like, sounds like such a simple question. It’s a kind of a byzantine, uh, set of interwoven, um, priorities.
When you start to talk about it, it’s easier to kind of refer back to that and then say, are we tracking, um, to what success looks like? And then having that. Communication cadence, the timing of it, setting up deliberate times to talk, not just about the, uh, what’s happening and the outcomes, but how’s it going?
Is the process working for us? Uh, I [00:18:00] find that helps shortcut a lot of things that could wind up ballooning or festering if they’re not addressed in a timely basis. But getting the mutual expectation on what success looks like, no matter what your plan is, something else always comes in sideways. How do we handle it when something shifts?
Um, and then being able to talk about it and, uh, appreciate and respect the other party and both views because we need both parties to get things done.
[00:18:27] Hannah Clark: We’ll change a little bit, uh, of the pace again, because I do wanna talk a little bit about, uh, personal branding. Um, and some of the ways, uh, to navigate.
Uh, sometimes there’s push and pull between one’s, establishing one’s personal brand and then, um, kind of navigating the brand of the organization that you represent. Um, and you know, there’s also the matter of just, you know, making sure that your personal brand continues to represent who you are. Um, so what are some effective strategies for navigating.
Uh, just personal branding and, and the ways that it kind of plays into your, your professional [00:19:00] reputation. Uh, Carolyn, did you wanna take this one?
[00:19:02] Carolyn Dolezal: Sure. I I can start. Um, I think, uh, what, what is the public face that you put on, whether it’s public, internal, to the, to the team or public to your external stakeholders and, um.
The marketplace. It’s, it’s having a really good sense and a strong understanding of what the organization’s brand is. And then, uh, for yourself, what is your brand, which is a promise of this is what you can expect from me when we, uh, have an interaction. And then looking for as much alignment as possible.
Um, some organizations expect you to sort of be the public. Voice for the organization as if you’re the spokes model and others. Others let you be you and you’re a leader and you happen to be affiliated with this organization. So understand what the. Cultural expectations are. Um, I know for instance, when I was working with, uh, public companies, you have to be, um, very sensitive and aware of when are you talking as a private citizen and when are you talking or being perceived as being, talking as part of that organization.
So be be careful [00:20:00] with that and then within that being true to yourself because if for some reason. The, um, projection of the company isn’t aligned with who you are, um, that that’s gonna grind on you over time. So as, as aligned as you can be, and hopefully there is a strong alignment, but over time, if you are misaligned, it’s might not be the best place for you.
[00:20:20] Hannah Clark: Mm, no, it’s fair enough. Kate, did you have anything to add?
[00:20:25] Kate Leto: I mean, I think it comes down to looking for areas that you are gonna have some overlap with your company’s brand versus, and, and focusing on those versus feeling like you have to be an echo, like an echo chamber of everything you’re saying and doing.
You know, it, it comes back to. Again, having a good understanding of what your own values are and how you, you know, are, are showing up not just to work to every, every day, but within your community, right? And how, where there is some overlap between that and what your company is bringing you on, or what your company, company [00:21:00] portrays, um, what their brand.
Um, and yeah, sometimes there’s a lot of tension there and especially, you know, I’d say probably recently there in some organizations. There might be more attention than before, and I think that that’s pretty normal because, you know, as, although we sometimes forget that organizations are made up of, of a lot of individuals, a lot of people, a lot of humans who all have kind of have their own values, their own beliefs, their own experiences that they’re bringing on.
So I think it’d be quite rare for there not to be some kind of tension. Right. Between that, a personal belief and the company belief. Hopefully there, there is that overlap though, and I think that’s what you focus on and it, you know, it’s not only representative of what you’re, you’re saying publicly, perhaps we on LinkedIn or whatever social, um, platform that you use, but also how you’re representing yourself internally.
Um, you know, it’s showing up and how you’re making decisions and how you’re, uh, building relationships with your team members and your [00:22:00] own managers and things like that. So, I, you know, a lot of it, I think just comes back to that, that core, um, element of having good self-awareness and good understanding of your own values and your own beliefs and how you, how you can bring them forward in a, and hopefully a positive and productive way.
Hmm.
[00:22:20] Hannah Clark: So before we move on to our third section, um, like Michael said, uh, just a quick reminder that we will be answering q and a after this next session, uh, our next section. So if you do have any questions that are coming to mind, uh, make sure to add them to the q and a so we can get to them. Um, and then that brings us to our third, uh, section, which is working with internal stakeholders, probably the moment that many of us have been waiting for.
And we’ll kick this one off with, um, a poll, another poll. Um, so which of these do you think most shapes. Uh, how you are perceived as a leader within your org. Again, it doesn’t have to be backed by data, it’s just how you feel or how you feel you’re perceived. Uh, and that should help us to frame a little bit of the conversation around as well.
Uh, well, we’ll get started with our first, uh, question of this section, [00:23:00] which is, what are some of the most effective habits that leaders can build to inspire confidence and buy-in with their teams? And I think we have touched on some of this before, but I’m sure that there’s plenty more that we haven’t gotten to Carolyn, if you wanted to take this one away.
Sure.
[00:23:12] Carolyn Dolezal: Um. One of the things that I, that I’ve observed that help, um, build some of that confidence and buy-in with teams is, um. Transparency, as much transparency as possible, having the relationships with the others that you’re working with because, um, things change and the, the strength of the relationship, um, and the trust factor there helps you weather a lot of storms.
Uh, it’s being very respectful of the other party’s time. Where do you need to dial them in? Um, where do you want that input? How is that input taken and treated? And I think just as you talk about the process. It’s kind of narrating it out loud so people know and understand what that is. But, um, it’s doing what you say you’re gonna do, doing it, and then reminding people that it’s been done and what’s next, I think is a, is a really strong way to kind of keep that, uh, faith and trust and, [00:24:00] and smoothness running.
I.
[00:24:04] Hannah Clark: Okay. And before we move on to, uh, because Kate, I know you’ve got something to add to that as well. Um, yeah, it sounds like, uh, in the, the results of the poll, about 21% percent say what I say, uh, has the most impact on shaping internal perception. But 50% said what I do, um, execution and team outcomes, which I would, I’d say is probably pretty correct.
But then about 15% each said also what others say about me. And, uh, others aren’t sure. Um, so this is interesting. Maybe we can kind of get into some of these, uh, you know, this idea of what others say about you. All the, all of the above, right? Mm-hmm. Yeah, absolutely. Uh, but, uh, before we move on to that, uh, Kate, I’ll let you, uh, if you wanted to add, uh, anything about effective habits and inspiring confidence.
[00:24:45] Kate Leto: Uh, sure. I mean, some of the things you’re right, we have touched on. Um, I think it’s, you know, I, I mentioned that I think it’s important to build relationships in all areas of the organization. I think that helps build confidence a lot because you are, you know, the doing that I [00:25:00] think was the 50%, um, is showing up and is being seen by people throughout an organization, not just perhaps within your silo or within your team.
Um, and asking for feedback there, I think that’s a great kind of, um, signal of the kind of leader you are, the, the kind of leader you’re hoping to become. Um, but also I’d say one of the, the key things, and it’s interesting, one of my clients, um, shared this with me, that what he really strives to do as a leader is to deliver.
He feels that the biggest, the best kind of kindness comes from just being clear with messaging, you know, care Clear, I’m not being clear. Clarity is kindness, is what he said. And what always is in the back of my mind when I’m talking to new leaders who are coming into these, coming into these roles per perhaps for the first time.
So just being really clear on, again, who you are. What’s [00:26:00] the, what’s the direction you’re going in, you know, to Carolyn’s point, being transparent, of course is, is a big part of that. Sharing that information, sharing the why behind the decisions that you’re making, but just being as clear as possible as you can and, you know, repeating it when you need to repeat it.
Um, honing in on the different kind of aspects of, of how this might impact. Each individual within your team and also the organization at large, just really keeping in mind that having that clarity, being as clear as you possible is kind to everyone in the organization, you know, and sometimes that means also the feedback that you’re giving to others.
Um, so I think that that’s a, a great thing to keep in mind as we’re kind of thinking through, um, how you can make influence more real and how you can bring it into kind of the doing aspect of your job.
[00:26:50] Carolyn Dolezal: I love that poll that, that you just did because I think all of those quite, uh, what is, what is it that I’m saying?
Um, I’m putting my intention forth, what am I doing? And then you can kind of measure me [00:27:00] or check against it. I think that’s so important. So people know what that behavior is and it’s linked to the objective. And then what are others saying about me? It’s like how is it landing with the audience? Um, I think all of those are.
Such interesting aspects as you’re trying to figure out how to do that and build that. What are they saying? What are they saying about you? You never believe all your press either good or bad, but understanding the, that’s the feedback loop.
[00:27:23] Hannah Clark: Mm-hmm.
[00:27:23] Kate Leto: Yeah. Yeah. And taking that on board. Absolutely.
[00:27:28] Hannah Clark: Uh, okay, so, uh, we, uh, we’re nearly at the 15 minutes to close Mark, so I wanna make sure we’ve cut time for this final, uh, section, which is.
Uh, I think very exciting. Um, so we’ll tell a little bit of stories about amazing leadership in action. Uh, personally I’m a big fan of learning through storytelling. Um, so I’d love if, uh, if our panelists could share some stories of, uh, just some amazing moments of leadership, uh, that they feel have a part that we can really take home with us today.
Uh, so, uh, Carolyn, uh, did you want to share, uh, or start us off with a story of, uh, a, a [00:28:00] leader that has impacted your own perception of what it means to be a great leader?
[00:28:03] Carolyn Dolezal: I’d love to, and this is probably one of the best, um, leaders I had the privilege to work with. Uh, he was, uh, an individual who came, came from like a sales background, so a gregarious, extroverted kind of individual.
Um, I, I did like the operations and the back office stuff, and he was like the front guy. I. Um, we had a really good, uh, push and pull in terms of, of how we wound up working together. But what really inspired me about him as a leader was he listened to and looked at the key players in his team, and as, as, uh, Kate had talked earlier, multiple layers in the organization.
So he knew his people, he understood his people, he saw what was their particular strength and understood interrelationships. And then if he saw something in somebody, he would open doors. He would make introductions, he would give assignments, he would, um, make things happen. And, uh, years after, and I, I, I owe a lot of, I think my early successes to his style, um, [00:29:00] when I would thank him for it later, he was almost kind of bemused and said, what?
He said, I didn’t do anything. You did all the work. And I said, you opened the door. And the fact that you opened the door and knew I could walk through it, you know, even if you kind of said there’s a door, go ahead. Um, that just, it changed everything for me. So. I think his generosity in understanding who is gifted where and where that could be used next, and then creating an opportunity or at least an on-ramp.
Um, I, I found that to be remarkable and I’m really grateful for it.
[00:29:30] Hannah Clark: Oh, Kate, do you have any stories that come to mind?
[00:29:33] Kate Leto: Yeah, there’s, um, one leader who very similar in some respects to what, what, to the story that Carolyn just uh, mentioned. Um, he was the CEO of an organization that I went in to do some product, um, consulting for.
Uh, for a while. And what I’ve really, I mean, he was just, he was very human, right? He was very funny, he was very personable. He was very open. He loved learning new things. [00:30:00] You know, he, I would always had another book, a new book he was reading and a conversation that he wanted to have based on that, to kind of try to figure out how he could bring this into the organization if it made sense and if it didn’t, um.
He had great trust in the people that worked for him, and you just felt like there was this really good kinship with him. Like I almost didn’t feel like he was the boss, the CEO. He was just somebody who was in your corner and wanted to help. You figure out how you could be the best you could be at, at your job.
Um, he took risks on people that he thought were ready for them. He’s always open to new ideas and new ways of thinking about things. He had no problem saying no when he needed to, um, that it just wasn’t the right thing. But, um, and he also, his decision making was very inclusive. He liked to bring people into the conversation.
He did. He did a great job at getting perspectives from people from all throughout the organization. I think he knew every, he had to [00:31:00] know everybody within this large organization by name, and he knew their backstory. So, as you can see me just kind of going on and gushing about this guy, he was a great leader, you know, and I don’t see many like that,
[00:31:12] Hannah Clark: right.
Awesome. Very aspirational. Um, does anyone else have any, or do either of you have more stories you wanna share before we move on?
[00:31:23] Carolyn Dolezal: I had a, I had a quick one, um, that, that I, I can maybe share. I had the, um, opportunity to attend a, a executive club meeting last night here in Chicago, and the guest speaker was, uh, Melinda French Gates. And so I’m sharing a Melinda story, but she talked about how, um, initially in her work life, she was in a culture that was, um, kind of aggressive and very competitive and a lot of sharp elbow throwing and, uh, felt that.
Um, wasn’t sure it suited her, but she said before she chose to be in another environment. Let me bring myself, so this goes back to the authentic self and, uh, she had high standards. Communicated that to her [00:32:00] team and said, you will prepare for the presentation. I will work with you to prepare. You’ll give the presentation to the uh, group that’s reviewing it, and you’ve got my support.
I’ve got your back. Um, and she found over time when she was truer to herself and did more of that supportive kind of leadership, that it became a talent magnet. She was able to attract key talent from other places in the organization. They were saying, how did you ever get that guy to sign up with your.
Part of the organization. And she said, I don’t know, maybe he just wanted to be in a place where he felt supported. Um, and I, I listened to that and I, I heard she had a 1800 person, um, division, I think at that time that she was leading. Uh, the, the notion of providing support, providing the opportunity, having the high standards holding it, but then also helping people, uh, adhere to it.
I thought that was something, um, I, I just admired about her style for a long time.
[00:32:50] Hannah Clark: That’s so, so inspirational. Um, well, uh, then I think before we, uh, get to q and a, I’ll just, I have a little bit of, uh, stuff to go through for [00:33:00] everybody. Uh, first of all, thank you to everybody who attended this session so far.
It’s really great to hear these insights. I’m really excited, uh, to cc that there’s some questions, uh, from the folks attending. Um. If you did enjoy the session today, we would like to see you at our next event, which will be an AI prompt engineering workshop. Um, so we’ll be learning how to create, uh, a basically use AI tools more effectively in order to get our day-to-day jobs done.
Uh, this could be, uh, this, this is aimed at product leaders, but uh, anyone can gain something from this workshop. So registration will be live soon and our newsletter subscribers will get that directly in their inbox. If you’re not subscribed to us yet, please consider subscribing. Um, and uh, also just a huge thanks in advance before we get to q and a to our, uh, panelists.
So, uh, Carolyn and Kate, thank you so much for making time in your days to be with us. Kate, I know that you’re quite a bit ahead of us time zone wise, so we really appreciate you making the time. Um, if you’d like to connect with Carolyn, you can connect with her directly on LinkedIn. Uh, we have the, uh, we’ll have their, uh, LinkedIn, um, links in our webinar [00:34:00] chat here and then Kate as well.
You can find her on LinkedIn or you can check out our website. There’s kate let.com, uh, which has her coaching courses and many other resources available. Uh, and then, uh, last thing that I wanted to make sure everybody is aware of before we move on to q and a is that we love feedback. Uh, so please feel free to add feedback.
We’ve got a feedback form here. Uh, that Mike will be posting in the chat, which makes it very easy to provide your feedback. Uh, we always like to try to make these sessions, uh, better every time. Alright, and without further ado, our final section, which is going to be just questions from you folks. Um, so, uh, I’ll start with a question from Galen.
I. Uh, he says A lot of my executive leadership, uh, examples have been Caucasian male leaders. The way I saw them build their influence isn’t quite viable for me as a visible minority. What are some of the strategies that, uh, minority leaders can use to play the game when the rules are different for each player?
Does anyone feel comfortable taking this one on?
[00:34:55] Carolyn Dolezal: Um, I, I, I would, I’ll, I’ll offer perhaps to start, I think the, [00:35:00] uh, it kind of goes back to the, um, the audience that you’re playing to and when you’re playing to that C-suite. Um, it is tough. It is a challenge. I had a, a mentor tell me at one point that if you aren’t cut from that same cookie cutter mold that they are.
You may have to be twice as good and you may have to work twice as hard before they believe it, not see it, but believe it, that you’re able to do it sustainably. And that’s, uh, that was the reality of the situation I was in. And instead of finding it really disheartening, I actually found it encouraging is, at least I knew that there’s potentially this, this breakthrough.
But it was, it was needing to be good. It was needing to do these communications and it was needing to be, uh, persistent and to determine if that’s what I wanted to do, stay true to myself. There’s a lot of overlap. Um, I think, or I hope a certain amount to get. Uh, and be able to deliver. There. There are things that are different.
Um, I have been working for many decades now. I still don’t have all the edges rounded off. [00:36:00] Um, but at least I can feel good about what I’m doing. But I understand it is probably harder because not everybody in that audience wants to believe it is possible.
[00:36:11] Hannah Clark: Since we’re, uh, a little short on time, I’m gonna just keep on going through the questions.
So we’ll kind of do a speed round. Uh, this next one is from, uh, Guda. Uh, this is about revisiting agreements. So, uh, they say during the life cycles of projects, there are inflection moments where agreements need to be revisited. How do you maintain the momentum of the project while revisiting the agreement with.
Stakeholders, uh, they’ve add, uh, this could lead to a wrong outcome of a project or a missed agreement, or what happens when the revisited agreement leads to the, uh, the need to create a different outcome of the project. So, a bit of more of a complex question. Does anyone wanna take this one on?
[00:36:43] Kate Leto: Uh, if I understand correctly, it’s about checking in on agreements throughout a long project.
Am I reading, am I hearing the right? Okay. Yeah. I. Things are always gonna change, right? So I think that’s kind of a, a foundational belief. [00:37:00] Um, something that we need to accept is that, you know, the world changes a million times a day. So of course things are going to change in your long-term relationship with the, with the stakeholder.
And it’s gonna be challenging and it’s gonna be frustrating at times. I think. Um, I think one of the best things to do is to, you know, in those initial upfront agreements that you set up, um, is how are we, how are we gonna check in when things go off the rails a bit? Um, and for a lot of, with a lot of my, my clients, larger organizations, we put in place some, a different kind of adaptive practices like make sure that you have.
Um, retros with your stakeholder or with your external stakeholder, you know, every quarter or something like that, at a cadence that you feel is, is the right way to go. So this, this becomes like a natural habit, a natural way of working that, you know, you’re always going to have this kind of conversation maybe once a quarter, a couple times a year, whatever it might fit for you.
But I, [00:38:00] I think in terms of motivation. I’ve seen where these kind of conversations really go off the rails when we’re just kind of doing the same type of, um, conversation. Every time, you know, you’re reporting certain numbers, you’re checking in on certain things, there’s really no opportunity to actually kind of have some different conversations around what’s working with the relationship and what’s not.
What kind of changes do you need to make and how you’re working together. Um, and really kind of get into some of those more juicy or meatier things versus just kind of checking dates, checking timelines, um, perhaps checking, you know, personnel that you might have working on different projects. So, I, I had one, you know, just acknowledge the fact that you need to have these conversations.
They’re really important to have set up a cadence upfront that you’re going to stick to, um. And, you know, change the, change the, the tone of those conversations from time to [00:39:00] time when you can to make it more about, you know, how are we working together? What’s going well? What’s no not going well, and what do we wanna continue to change?
Um, versus perhaps kind of a, a template and check-in, which I often see happen between client and stakeholder.
[00:39:17] Hannah Clark: This. Uh, and thank you for that. That was a great answer, Kate. Um, uh, I wanna move on to this question from a Amelia, which I think is one that probably all of us have had to ask at one point. Um, I feel I’ve lost stakeholder influence early on by making a lot of mistakes.
What can I do to build my influence back up?
[00:39:37] Carolyn Dolezal: Oh, that’s a good question. Um, maybe some suggestions are, um, I find acknowledgement of what might have not been delivered the way I had intended or wanted it to be, um, where it’s appropriate, an apology and a remedy. I. Uh, and so this is what we will do. And then I think the kind of like re like it takes time to sort of rebuild trust and it takes time for people to [00:40:00] believe it’s different this time.
So it’s, it’s unfortunate, but I think it’s solvable. Um, but reestablishing what it is, how this works, being respectful of their time, but um, uh, carrying forth over time. They’ll remember maybe the more recent experience and they’ll forget the initial experience. It just takes a while to kind of dig outta that, that hole.
[00:40:19] Kate Leto: I had a client ask me this question this week. It was really interesting. Some, you know, she’s working. On rebuilding some relationships within her organization. And, um, and I think, you know, first off, it’s just letting people know that you’re working on it. You know, Carolyn’s point about acknowledging it.
This is something I’m working on. Um, this, you know, some feedback that she received, acknowledging the feedback. Tell them you’re working on it and check in with them, you know, again. To see how things are going, to see if they’ve noticed a change. Um, you know, that maybe is not a conversation you can have with everyone, but I think there are probably a few people within an organization that you can,
[00:40:57] Carolyn Dolezal: and I guess I’ll also say it’s not [00:41:00] comfortable and that’s okay.
Um, this, it’s not gonna be comfortable. There’s no, I don’t have a silver bullet or a smooth way, but I think with the perseverance, you can turn things around.
[00:41:09] Hannah Clark: Yeah, I think that that, that show of good faith is very powerful and, and just, you know, leveling with people that, that you’re aware of the, of the concerns and that, uh, you know, it’s kind of a, uh, a signal to be attentive and, uh, an invitation for further and, and very honest feedback.
So I, I, I, I appreciate that answer as well. Um, Laura, last question is from Yen. Uh, one of the weaknesses of surveys is the shallowness of results. How can we generate questionnaires or surveys that ask the right questions to generate the nuanced insight we strive for? I assume that this is, um, like ENPS or something to that effect, uh, leadership surveys to, uh, I’m not, I’m, I’m thinking that that’s what Aaron means.
Uh, ya if you wanna clarify in the chat, if I’m off base. Um, but I, it sounds like the heart of the question is really how do we. Uh, generate or [00:42:00] solicit a useful, helpful, honest feedback from, uh, from our teams. Oh, oh, the, oh, I see. Oh, for the, the, that poll. Oh. Well thank you for the feedback. Although I do think that this, it is a good question, you know, how do we ask feed?
’cause we’re just speaking about feedback within the organization, so maybe we should follow that thread. What is a good way to solicit honest feedback? Because it is a real thing. That oftentimes the higher are you are, uh, within the leadership team, the harder it is to get honest, uh, feedback from folks who are, you know, your direct reports.
So, um, what are some strategies that we can use to kind of mitigate some of those challenges with regards to, uh, you know, communication throughout the org chart?
[00:42:45] Carolyn Dolezal: Couple, couple of things. I think, um, uh, there’s quantitative ways to gather feedback and I know that that’s really popular and you can get numbers, but I personally find that qualitative feedback is really helpful because you can go deeper and get richer, um, and some nuances that you might not have otherwise [00:43:00] thought about.
And so offering some space for that. And this is. I don’t know. It’s, maybe it’s my, my Midwestern, you know, middle class upbringing. But if, if there’s a way to share a meal with somebody or like host a breakfast thing or, and I find smaller groups, people are sometimes feel freer to talk in smaller groups than if they’re in a big group.
Um, somehow, like there’s a dinnertime diplomacy. If you can talk over food, I think that helps. And then leaving that space and then do not under any circumstance, act rushed. If you allow half an hour for the conversation, don’t block anything on your calendar after that, because you don’t wanna be like, okay, hurry up and.
And let me get outta here. ’cause then people will withdraw. Mm-hmm. Um, so those are some things I think that are helpful to get some depth, to understand what’s on their mind. And usually it’s the last two minutes where you hear what they’re really thinking. The rest of it’s kind of preamble and warm up, and in the last two minutes they’ll, they’ll deliver the payload of information you’re looking for.
[00:43:51] Hannah Clark: Okay. Well, I, I love this tip. And, um, uh, speaking of last two minutes, we are really at time. So, uh, so I just wanted to thank everybody for attending the [00:44:00] session. Uh, and thank you for your questions. Uh, thank you again to our panelists, Kate and Carolyn, this is wonderful to have you here and I really appreciate the gift of your insights that you’ve shared with us today.
Um, so again, uh, folks. Who have attended. Please feel free to, uh, fill out the feedback survey that we circulated in the chat. Uh, and thank you as well for making time in your day to join us and, uh, hope to see you next time.
[00:44:20] Kate Leto: Thank you.
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