Product Leaders Share Their Team Priorities for 2025

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[00:00:00] Hannah Clark: All right, we’re gonna get going here. So welcome everybody to the latest in our community event series. So every time we do one of these, they get bigger, they get better. We get more engagement. They’ve been going so great. So we really appreciate everybody’s, uh, engagement, attendance, enthusiasm for these events.

Uh, it’s what keeps us going. Um, so, uh, thank you for coming. And my name is Hannah Clark. I’m the executive editor for the product manager and host of the product manager podcast. Uh, so I would like to welcome you formally to this session. And today’s session, speaking of which is going to be focusing on what product leaders want from their product teams in 2025.

Now, we had a hard time coming up with an adequate name for this event because what we’re really trying to achieve with this event is more of an alignment session. Um, we kind of want this to be You know, treat this like a town hall almost in which you are free and open to ask some of the questions.

You’re burning [00:01:00] questions from product leaders that you just don’t really feel like you can ask in your own town hall. Uh, and we’re also going to be just aligning from top down, uh, what’s kind of going on in the product sphere. Uh, what are product leaders focused on and what is it looking like and how does that ladder down, uh, to what you’re doing day to day?

So this is a discussion for leaders. It’s a discussion for folks who are in the middle of their career and, uh, ICs all alike. I think we should all be able to get something great out of this conversation. So to lead us through this conversation today, we’ve got some top voices and thought leaders in this space.

Uh, we were not able to get Brian, um, To come in, Brian Thomas from customer. io. He had some, uh, extenuating circumstances, but we do have our wonderful guests, uh, Melika Hope and we’ve got Ken Romano. So Melika, um, she is the Director of Product Management at Spotify. Um, so Melika, you’re originally from Toronto, uh, but a few years back, you’ve headed up product teams for Intuit’s, uh, Canadian, Brazilian and Mexican divisions.

And then now you’re in New York, uh, where you’ve been working as the Director of Product Management for. [00:02:00] X formerly and now Spotify. Um, if we talk a little bit about, uh, Spotify specifically, what’s on your Spotify playlist right now?

[00:02:09] Melika Hope: Oh, uh, top of my playlist is Dochi, uh, for sure. Um, I actually feel like I’m a bit late in the game with getting to know Dochi, but loving that.

I actually love how many women are really prominent in the hip hop space right now. So, listening to a lot of Glorilla. Of course, a lot of Megan Thee Stallion, a lot of them had albums out recently, so that is definitely, uh, definitely what I’m feeling. It’s our time for women in hip hop right now. I love it.

[00:02:39] Hannah Clark: Love that. If anyone else is listening to Dochi, please chime in because, yeah, I’m, I’m with you. Um, uh, next up is Ken Romano. So Ken, uh, he’s a, uh, oh, he mentioned in a LinkedIn post recently about your affinity for hiring former journalists as PMs. And sorry, I, I should mention that he is the VP product at Stacker.

Um, so Ken, you mentioned [00:03:00] before that you have, uh, a bit of a, a leaning towards hiring Former journalists as PMs at Stacker, uh, tell us a little bit about why you tend to, uh, find a really great, uh, skill set in journalists and why they seem to be really great for the role.

[00:03:14] Ken Romano: So before Stacker, I was with the Associated Press for eight years and had no journalism background, didn’t know many journalists, but over the course of working there and kind of getting to know journalists, They’re curious, they’re insightful, they ask the right questions, and when you’re trying to figure out why something went wrong, you want to put a reporter or a journalist on it.

So I just found that, like, through hiring, through internal transfers, the exact right skill set for, um, uh, for a product manager. Uh,

[00:03:42] Hannah Clark: we’ve, uh, we were just talking before the session started how, uh, we’ve noticed this trend of journalists being great PMs. If you’re a former journalist and PM, let us know.

So just to set some context before we really get into things, uh, like I said before, this is going to be sort of a top up and top down conversation. We’re really going to be talking about, first of all, high level. What are [00:04:00] product leaders in 2025 really focused on?

What are kind of the tough nuts to crack that we’re looking at? Um, and what does that look like in terms of, you know, what do we need from our product teams? What do we need from directors? What do we need from, um, you know, the, the senior product managers? We, what do we need from, uh, even ICs? And how do we kind of stand out and make our, uh, our careers progress faster by kind of rising to the occasion in this particular climate.

Um, if you have any questions that you would like to ask, or if you have any curiosities about how, you know, what you’re doing in your space, um, might kind of correlate with some of that, those vision and strategy, um, ideas, please let us know. I would just ask that when you’re thinking about a question, Um, we, what we do want to see are questions that could pertain to everyone, uh, or, or pertain to people who are in your role at other companies.

What we will be staying away from are our specific questions that have a lot of context, that’s really only relevant to your organization. Um, so just a little disclaimer, uh, we may, uh, avoid questions that are a little bit too specific and are [00:05:00] probably best left for your own manager. Um, and without further ado, we’re going to get into the discussion.

Um, so we’ll start with Ken. So, uh, what’s your company focused on right now? And what are you focused on as a leader in order to enable that vision at a high level?

[00:05:16] Ken Romano: Sure. Uh, so let me, uh, take 20 seconds to tell you about Stacker first, just so we understand the context. Uh, we’re a content distribution platform, so we sit right in between brands that are looking for syndication for the stories that they write.

And then on the other side, we have publishers like your local newspaper, uh, even up in Canada, that are looking for additional content. So it’s almost like a PR newswire, but for stories as opposed to press releases. Over the past couple of years, we’ve really transitioned from kind of a services business into a lot more of a platform.

So a lot more self serve, um, a lot more speed with which we can process those stories. And for me, I’m spending a lot of time thinking about Insights [00:06:00] and recommendations, um, which I’m sure is something Melika and her team spend a ton of time on as well with Spotify, um, but just this idea that now we have so much data underneath our platform of all of these thousands of stories that have been processed, where they performed well, how many page views that they got, you can start getting all of this signal that we can then provide back to the brands we work with and the best time of day to publish the story.

The best way to reach certain types of consumers on. So the big focus for this year is really building out that kind of content insights area. Um, and so I am trying to kind of work with my team to shift us in that direction while at the same time, not just running after the bright and shiny. Oh, my God, let’s throw artificial intelligence on top of it.

Um, and I think that’s one of the big kind of leadership challenges is making sure that we stay It’s really focused and use the right tools for the right job without being distracted by, um, what sounded [00:07:00] great on a podcast yesterday.

[00:07:01] Hannah Clark: Hmm. Yeah, it seems like an overarching theme culturally of avoiding distractions.

Malik, how about yourself? What’s on your mind right now as a leader? Um,

[00:07:11] Melika Hope: a lot. Uh, so definitely agree with Ken that, like, I think we’re all across the industry in a bit more of a resource constrained environment right now. Um, there’s no longer the, oh, just like throw a head count at that problem. And so, um, Both like there’s obviously personal challenges that come with that.

But also, how do we ensure that we’re still able to deliver? Because, of course, we’re still expected to drive growth. And so ensuring that we have the right data to make those decisions and that we are really thinking about What will have the greatest impact with the least amount of work or the least amount of time, um, is super important.

Um, and then constantly top of mind is like, I was super affected by the climate right now. Like I worked at Twitter, uh, pre, uh, [00:08:00] takeover, um, and then no longer worked there shortly after the takeover. So I have a first hand experience of what a lot of folks are going through in the industry, how hard it is to get new roles, um, um, and, and a lot of fear.

That I think a lot of people in the product community are feeling right now. And so how to hold that, you know, that in my, you know, in my head and have a lot of empathy for folks that, you know, this is a challenging time to be in our industry, but at the same time. To not lower the bar and to ensure that we’re still driving a high performance culture and that cannot be compromised.

So how to balance that as a leader is definitely something I’m thinking about every day.

[00:08:42] Hannah Clark: Yeah, I’d like to kind of continue on that thread because yeah, like this has been such a turbulent time recently in the tech industry. Um, so Melika as a leader, what’s been your biggest takeaway from 2024 and how things have sort of shaken out that you feel has impacted your approach to leadership for 2025?

[00:08:58] Melika Hope: I, I think that is the big [00:09:00] one. Like, I think that, uh, we thought it was going to be a temporary thing or we’re just seeing a bit of a dip in, in the tech space, but I think it is continuing. I think we’re still seeing layoffs happening. We’re still seeing companies cutting budgets. Um, and so. Again, like how do we, how do we operate kind of business as usual when all of this turmoil is happening around us?

And how do I help the team stay super focused on the top priorities and still be excited to come to work and excited to deliver value for customers when there’s kind of this weight hanging over everyone’s heads. And it’s something I struggle with as well, but how to keep the team excited and motivated.

When, when we’re in that environment is, uh, is really what I’m focused on and what I’m thinking of. Long term.

[00:09:47] Hannah Clark: How about yourself, Ken?

[00:09:49] Ken Romano: You know, I, I, one of the things I, I try to focus on is, is encouraging people to be intentional about kind of where they put their energy and their focus, because we right now we all [00:10:00] only have so much and, and I think product managers are used to being.

Kind of generalists that can be chameleons and do a little bit of everything. And what I try to encourage people to do is not set themselves up for failure, where they feel that they have to be an expert in every single thing. There are people that are experts in, uh, kind of the customer facing aspect.

There are people that are aspects in the internal technology and operations aspects, and let’s build a team where everybody can kind of focus on what they are. Best dad. I think the other thing is because I know I fell victim to it earlier in my career is making sure people don’t feel that they need to also be a subject matter expert in everything.

Um, I remember, you know, maybe five, six years ago when, uh, blockchain was the thing everybody was talking about. And I said to myself, like, right now, I just do not have the mental capacity to learn about blockchain. And I might regret it in six months, um, but I’m just not going to focus on it right now. Uh, and, and I think right now [00:11:00] with so many different tools out there, so many different platforms, things changing every single day, um, just making sure people understand that they aren’t expected to be an expert in every single thing.

[00:11:10] Hannah Clark: Cool. Uh, excuse me. So speaking of expertise and pioneering those skill sets, uh, given your experience, and this is, I’m going to be directing this at Ken first, uh, given your experience from the past year and the priorities of what’s coming up, what are you really depending on the direct reports in your, uh, in your purview to be able to do?

Um, so what are some of the key skills that really stand out in mid senior people, managers that make you say that this person Could probably do my job someday.

[00:11:38] Ken Romano: Sure. Um, I think the biggest thing, and it’s actually in the onboarding deck that I take all new hires through is, uh, I always tell people two things.

One is. Um, don’t lie, don’t cover things up, don’t feel that you can’t deliver bad news, because there’s just bad news every day that we need to figure out. Um, so be very upfront about what’s going well, what’s [00:12:00] not going well. Um, and then the other aspect is just having a point of view. Um, that’s really when I see that someone is kind of ready for the next step, or ready for more responsibility, when they’re not just saying, Well, customer X and Y requested this.

So let’s build it. But when the person comes to me and says customer X and Y requested this, um, here’s the budget build out. Here’s the competitive threat that we see from three other, uh, competitors. Here’s the industry environment. And for all of those reasons, I think we should do it. I think we shouldn’t do it.

So kind of that ability to just connect all of the dots is one of the most valuable things that I see, um, and when I’m usually kind of ready to say, okay, you’re ready to take on a little bit more, or let’s talk about a promotion or things like that.

[00:12:54] Hannah Clark: Interesting. That’s really good insight. And Melika, how about yourself?

When you’re speaking with people in your team, what’s kind of, uh, like what are some of [00:13:00] the factors that tell you that that person Is kind of ready for the next step, or that you’re really depending on them to deliver?

[00:13:06] Melika Hope: I think there’s two things, and one of them’s kind of connected to what Ken mentioned, but, um, so I would say decision making skills and executive communication skills.

So, um, similar to what Ken said, like, are you decisive? Can you come to me with a strong point of view? And can you make a difficult decision? Understanding the tradeoffs and but just make the decision. Are you coming to me with decisions and solutions versus coming to me to solve your problems? Um, so that is like a super strong indicator to me that someone is is ready for that next level.

And then this is consistent pretty much through every, um, level for me, but executive communication. Can you speak concisely? Can you dive to the point, um, and give the information that is required to, if you’re looking for people to make decisions or what have you, and that’s written, that’s verbal, et cetera.

I’ve seen people hugely [00:14:00] accelerate their careers due to having strong executive communication, communication skills. And I’ve seen people flounder, um, when they might have the capabilities, but they are simply unable to articulate those effectively.

[00:14:11] Hannah Clark: Okay. That’s really good. I can jump in

[00:14:14] Ken Romano: on that last one.

I 100 percent agree. And I’ve seen sometimes people get. Um, a little bit flustered, whether you’re in real life, whether you’re in zoom, it’s like, oh, I’ve got this executive presentation that I need to give, um, and maybe I’m not good in front of that level of people. But what I try to encourage people to do is remember that there’s so much power in the written word as well, and be able to write something convincingly.

And it might be kind of like proactively writing up something that you feel your executive team cares about, send it directly to them, send it to your manager. Forward on, but again, kind of like lean into your strengths, where if you’re not great verbally or in person on the spot, just figure out another way, record a loom and send it to people.[00:15:00]

[00:15:00] Hannah Clark: You know, I have to mention I was speaking to an executive coach just yesterday who mentioned that a lot of the time her experience as an executive was that the answer to the issues that the executives are trying to solve often is in the company somewhere. It’s just with someone who doesn’t have a lot of voice or influence.

And I thought that was a really powerful takeaway that, you know, there are that if you’re feeling that you don’t have. The answers are that you’re not at the level of influence, uh, in order to kind of present that solution. Uh, you might have actually more power than you think, but you just need to communicate it to the correct people.

I wanted to throw that one in. Um, all right, so we’ll move right along. Um, so let’s talk a little bit about, uh, leading by example. So, um, a really great way to absorb best practices is by hearing about them in action. Um, so Melika, can you share a story of someone you’ve worked with who really made a positive impression on you?

What was their role and what was the impact that they made?

[00:15:57] Melika Hope: Yeah. Um, [00:16:00] so there’s always the same person that comes to mind when this comes up. I don’t know if he’s watching right now. He’s a former direct report of mine that I would love to snag back at some point in our careers. And he was given feedback that he needed to work on that executive communication, gravitas, like executive presence.

Um, he was also very humble about it, which always the best people to coach as a manager are folks that come in with a sense of. Like, a healthy sense of ego and understanding their strengths, but also a lot of humility. So he was given the feedback that he needed to work on that, and so he started a YouTube channel, um, to work on his presentation skills and work on his communication skills, and he has the top ranked YouTube channel in home automation now.

Like, he, like, generates an income off of it. And I just love that success story of someone that like leaned in so hard to the feedback that he was given and then obviously turned it into a strength and [00:17:00] like found like a, a unique voice that clearly resonated with people. I think that’s such like a special way to, to leverage feedback in a positive way.

[00:17:10] Hannah Clark: I love that. Wow. That’s what an amazing 180. Yeah. Right. Yeah. Ken, do you have any similar kind of stories?

[00:17:17] Ken Romano: Uh, I have a question for, send me his LinkedIn so I can poach him, um, if you don’t want him first. Um, but besides that, um, you know, I, I think about, uh, one of my colleagues when, when I was at the AP, um.

You know, there was kind of the the newsroom side and the business side. And traditionally, if you work in journalism, you know that going decades back, it’s kind of like church and state sort of thing. And I think what we saw is a lot of people kind of trying to bridge the gap. And I had a partner that was one of our managing editors, and she would always want to collaborate with us on figuring out.

You know, what are the business and the technology things we need to do in order to make the journalism shine, which is very selfless in that regard. But the other [00:18:00] thing that I loved, and again, why I like hiring journalists, is that she just had this storytelling brain that I don’t have. I’m very left brained.

She came to a little bit more right brained, where it was not You know, a proposal on building X, Y, and Z. It was telling the big story about why this would be impactful for the company, why it would get people excited. Um, and it was always this constant reminder. She’s always in the back of my mind when I’m presenting something is just what is the narrative as opposed to just what are we going to do and what are we going to accomplish?

[00:18:34] Hannah Clark: Oh, that’s really cool. Yeah, storytelling, it’s one of those. I mean, I think it’s an unsung talent. Um, so, uh, we’ll talk a little bit about the job market right now. Uh, a little bit of a downer. Uh, so we’re in a very competitive job market right now, as we all are all too aware. And it kind of seems like product managers could just never really be too qualified when applying for new roles.

It’s a, yeah, it’s, it’s, it’s [00:19:00] hard out here. Um, so Melika, when hiring individual contributors. What are some of the key qualifications and skills, whether hard skills or soft skills, that you look for? And I don’t just mean on the resume. It can also be things that come through on the interview process.

[00:19:13] Melika Hope: Yeah, uh, good, because that’s where I’ll focus, I think, more on the interview process.

And, like, nothing has changed to me, uh, as far as what I look for when I hire. And that is Is it someone that is close to their customer, focused on their customer, can articulate a customer problem effectively, and the solutions that they drove to provide value to that customer? And can they quantify that?

So, like, we just talked about storytelling and effective communication. I honestly think there’s no greater skill than effective communication. Verbal communication, obviously written, is important as well. But from a product manager and from a product leader, and I’m honestly surprised at how hard it can be to find folks that are able to articulate that, that [00:20:00] narrative to me when, to me, it’s the most important thing that we do.

So Just that, like, connectedness to that customer and the ability to let that shine through is always what stands out to me in a product interview.

[00:20:13] Hannah Clark: Interesting. How about your, uh, how about for yourself, Ken?

[00:20:16] Ken Romano: Uh, I would plus one all of that. On top of it, I would say I definitely look for, um, a hint of, uh, like selflessness and collaboration.

Um, a product manager is usually not going to be the person that is the hero or is using a million I statements about everything that they did, you know, the product manager is the person that’s kind of bringing it all together, getting people excited and then driving the result, but not without being able to really collaborate across the team, have a low ego, have low empathy, particularly if you’re working in, you know, I’ve gone back and forth between kind of like really large organizations and small ones, and particularly when you’re working in a large organization, I think there’s a, um, [00:21:00] you know, this tendency to believe like, oh, I’ve got to be cutthroat, and I’ve got to just get ahead.

But there is a certain beauty in kind of bringing people along and kind of knowing when to lead and when to follow. And so I usually look for those sorts of things.

[00:21:16] Hannah Clark: Wow. Interesting. Oh, it’s very nuanced humility. Uh, that’s very cool. Um, so, uh, moving right along here. So how about when it comes to promoting people?

So it’s a little bit different when we’re, we’re, we talked a little bit about things that we look for in people who are maybe exhibiting signs that they’re ready for in the next step. But when we’re promoting someone into their first people leadership role, what are we looking for when considering who might be a good candidate to lead others?

Um, we’ll try, we’ll start with Ken on this one.

[00:21:45] Ken Romano: Yeah, I mean, I am, uh, this might be an unpopular opinion, but I’m, um, a believer in that people leaders should still kind of continue doing at least some of the day to day. I think it’s important that people [00:22:00] leaders are still talking to customers, um, that a people leader might still have, you know, a feature or two that they develop.

Um, because I don’t want. The people leaders to be kind of so far removed that they’re only managing people and management is important. I say only in quotes But so for me, I really look for someone that I know is going to be able to balance that They will still be able to contribute individually But then on top of that, kind of have the time and the patience and the passion to manage a team.

Um, because I think people management is not for everybody. And I think it is very easy to get burned out because you have the People leadership when it comes to the day to day job, but at the same time any people manager will tell you you are also a part time therapist because we are all full human beings outside of our day to day and we bring that humanity into [00:23:00] our day to day.

Um, so it is one of those things you almost want to make sure that people know what they’re signing up for.

[00:23:06] Hannah Clark: Interesting. Melika, how about yourself? What do you look for in leaders?

[00:23:10] Melika Hope: Yeah, that’s, that’s a huge plus one, Ken. Like, I, I’ve given a talk, um, at a couple of conferences about making the leap from like, I see it a people manager.

And I definitely talk about that piece that like, it’s not for everyone and companies need to find ways. And a lot of them have, um, in the new landscape, but like find ways to recognize folks for strong performance if they’re not the right people for people leadership, because it can be a drag, like absolutely.

But what I look for a lot of the time is like, are you leading? Because no one, I would never promote anyone to people leadership if I’m not already seeing them. Adopt a leadership mentality and especially as product managers. There’s so many opportunities to show that leadership. Like how does your engineering team speak about you?

How do your peers speak about you? Like, I think it shines through really clearly when someone is [00:24:00] operating like a leader there. They’re being decisive. They’re making decisions. They paint a vision for what they’re trying to do, and they bring folks along with that vision. And that gives me a really strong indication.

That they would be able to to do the same thing and inspire that same type of growth and folks that they’re directly managing so leadership or influencing without authority or all of those pieces, I think, are the big ones that I look for.

[00:24:25] Hannah Clark: I, you know, I have to plus one both of you guys as well, because I have just, I really subscribe to the idea that, um, people leadership leadership in general is such a.

unique skill set. It doesn’t mean that you’re just very, very good at what you were doing as an IC. It means you have this specific, you know, it’s a, it’s a whole other competency that, uh, yeah, I, I don’t think that we focus much enough on, uh, when we’re talking about the day to day as an IC and what those kinds of leadership traits really look like.

Um, actually speaking of which, does anyone have any specific examples, maybe like an anecdote that they want to throw out of where they’ve [00:25:00] seen? Um, something like that in action where an IC has really shown or like done something specifically that really caught your eye like that’s that is leadership to me

putting you on the spot a little bit.

[00:25:14] Ken Romano: Yeah, no worries. Um, I think for me, I’ll give a slightly general one, which is when. Uh, actually I’ve got someone on my team right now that is fantastic at seeing, you know, knowing exactly what she’s got to accomplish to hit her K. R. s and goals, but then kind of has this bird’s eye view of That team over there could probably use my help because I, I know what I’m good at.

I know I’m a really good project manager, in addition to being a product manager, and I know that I could probably help out a little bit. So let me just offer my help. Not take over the project, but say, Hey, I think I can help you out with this in my spare time. And so I think that is the sort of thing where it’s, it’s [00:26:00] Almost even before you get into, to people management, like Melika was saying, was just exhibiting leadership and saying, Hey, I think I can help you.

Well, do you want to accept my help?

[00:26:11] Melika Hope: Yeah, I would say, um, two of my PMs right now are, are doing this. And I think, um, something that always stands out to me is like, am I, am I like, Oh, I should start doing that. Am I impressed by like something they’re doing or giving me a new thought? One of my PMs told me she takes half an hour every single week and meets with someone new in the organization just to like, have a coffee and to build a relationship.

Now that can be difficult because folks, like, obviously their time is really valuable, but I was like, wow, and so through that she has formed so many connections and so there’ll be a lot of the time when we Or trying to solve a specific problem. And she’s like, oh, I know that person over there. Mentioned they’re heading in that direction strategically next week.

So, like, she, she understands that we work for a, um, an organization that’s really relationship based. And that building those relationships will give her an advantage and [00:27:00] will give our team, like, more importantly, our team will have an advantage. And, and she’s just jumping in with two feet to, like, taking advantage of that where she can.

[00:27:08] Hannah Clark: Okay, this is an amazing segue because right now I’d love to talk about silos. This is like an, uh, issue that we have. Just about every organization struggles with siloing and especially now that we’ve moved to a largely remote work culture. Um, so, uh, I’ll start with Ken. Um, in your view, how do silos develop and why are they so hard to dismantle when, uh, once they become established, even though so many of us agree that they’re kind of, uh, an issue?

[00:27:33] Ken Romano: Yeah, I mean, if, if I had my Kind of magic wand sort of thing to just change organizational culture. It would be that to make the goaling a lot more cross functional. Um, I think even if you have a mature goaling organization, it’s probably still breaking down to, well, the sales team is going to do this.

And the product team is going to deliver that. And the customer success team is going to do this and all the. Most effective projects I’ve seen [00:28:00] in my career is when it’s a really small group of people, four or five people from across the company that are going to say, you know what, we are all collectively going to go towards this goal.

And it, you know, you got to hit a sales thing and all these things, but if we just agree, like this is the North Star, let’s do everything we can to work together and drive that forward. And I just see, I see it often breaking down where that’s the intention, but it always comes back to kind of each department still needing to just focus on whatever their major KPI is.

Um,

[00:28:36] Ken Romano: how to break it down? Um. If I had solutions, um, I think how to break it down is what I would recommend to anybody is just find those little opportunities. Um, like, like Melika was saying, there’s so much that you could do kind of relationship building with your peers. Um, and, and my CEO would probably hate me for saying this, but it’s almost one of those things where you say, like, Hey, our [00:29:00] executive leadership team wants us to do this.

But I think we should kind of like have our own little skunkworks thing because this really is the right thing and like we were talking about a little bit earlier, the, the knowledge is within the company and if you feel really passionate that you want to break down the silo, you want to go a little bit against the grain with the way the company does things, just give it a shot.

Worst thing is you fail, the best thing is you succeed and then you look great because you came up with an out of the box idea.

[00:29:29] Hannah Clark: Yeah, and, and like, yeah, again, to Melika’s point, I think that that, uh, that showing that initiative to. Breakdown, um, lines between departments by forming human relationships and just talking to people about what they’re going through day to day.

That’s so powerful, but I have you notice that, you know, what, what’s your take on siloing, uh, from your own experience, have you kind of seen it to be more of a plus, like kind of like, you know, it’s the best or the worst thing, except all the other ones. Or is it, uh, has it been something that you’ve seen effectively break down in your career?[00:30:00]

[00:30:01] Ken Romano: I think for me, if I go back to my AP experience, um. There was definitely silo between kind of the new side and the business side, and that was a little bit institutional, a little bit cultural, and it just kind of event. It just chipped away, chipped away. And you’re right. A lot of it was relationship building, and it was kind of there were still these institutional barriers.

But one on one relationships, and then two on two, and then three on three, people just started, you found your kind of like minded people. And so I think those things, uh, it can be harder in large organizations, but also sometimes easier, uh, because you can kind of like fly under the radar a little bit, or you can just decide who the people are that, that you really want to forge those relationships with.

[00:30:51] Hannah Clark: Yeah, so to bring it back to Melika, um, so I, I really like that example that, that’s really sticking in my mind here. Uh, have you seen any other kinds of [00:31:00] examples of folks kind of like taking initiative to break down silos or even, uh, initiatives from like the executive level that have kind of helped to, um, and, and just kind of create more of a collaborative atmosphere throughout the organization?

[00:31:11] Melika Hope: I mean, I don’t know so much as initiatives as behaviors. Um, and I think a lot of people struggle with like being that connector. Like it can be really intimidating to say like, Oh, set up time with someone from another team with no agenda. Like I don’t even like doing that. But I do think the most important piece to breaking down those silos is understanding what is important to the team you’re trying to break into.

Like, is it influence? Is it certain outcome that they’re trying to deliver, um, et cetera, and going to them. with a, not, maybe not a solution, but a contribution towards that piece and like establishing a shared objective together. So if I can’t get a meeting on someone’s calendar, I need to send that person something to prove why they need a meeting with me, why I will be [00:32:00] helpful to them.

And so always having that type of attitude I find effective. And then you mentioned exact, like, I think. Executives, um, I don’t know, often cop out of, like, the silo conversation and they expect folks to kind of solve for these problems on their own, and I think continuing to push your leaders and their leaders, when appropriate and within reason, to assist with breaking down those silos and where you can, they can effectively use their influence to help is really important.

Like, don’t feel like you’re on your own. Those folks exist to, um, make your job easier or they should exist for that. And so I, I encourage you to push people where, where you really need it.

[00:32:40] Hannah Clark: It’s great advice. Um, so let’s move on to competing priorities. I think this is another hot button issue in product management.

Um, so I think it’s, you know, computing priorities are just part and parcel of life in this field. Um, so Melika, what are some of the ways that you’ve personally approached prioritization that you think have helped you progress in your career? [00:33:00]

[00:33:01] Melika Hope: Uh, so I think when it comes to, like, product priorities, I always like to say I don’t set the priorities, the customer sets the priorities, and so if you’re really as connected to the customer as I mentioned earlier, it shouldn’t be, I mean, it’s still hard, but that should be the lens you look at things from, but personally, Um, so the first year I was into it, I was like really fairly young in my PM career.

I had a great manager that year and he had a system where he expected us at any point in time to have all our priorities written down, but the top three to be like, like at any point, if he said, what’s your top three priorities to like have them at the tip of your tongue. And, because this was a time where we had a ton of folks competing to like, get us to do things.

And he said, anytime someone approaches you with something they want you to do, share your top three priorities with them and say, um, why should your task replace one of my top three priorities? Most of the time they will say, oh, you’re right, it shouldn’t, my, and they take it away. [00:34:00] But if they say, yeah, it should replace one of these, then I say, great, my manager is going to hop over, the three of us are going to have a conversation.

Um, and we’re going to establish whether or not your opinion like is going to be implemented and it it was such an effective tool and even though now I don’t do I’m not like calling my manager into a room to like help establish that but just Having three things at all time that are non negotiable, and it could change every day if it has to, but using that as a tool, so you’re not saying no, you’re just saying it’s not one of my top three priorities, maybe it will become one day, and it just helps me every day, I think about what are my top three for today, what are my top three for this week, and it really helps me have a clarity on like how to spend my time, and it’s a tool that I’ve used every day since he taught me that.

[00:34:45] Hannah Clark: Well, that’s a super useful tactic. I think that we can use no matter where we are at the org chart. I really like that contribution. I just want to quickly call out, uh, Collins in the chat here had a little tip for breaking silos, just kind of calling back to that last topic that I think is worth [00:35:00] sharing.

Um, my former company, we had a weekly meeting where business technical and strategic ICs and leaders would present what they were working on. And it really helped to break silos and foster connections. I, I, if this is possible in your organization, I think that’s a really great tactic because I think a lot of the time it just comes down to just lack of visibility within, you know, everybody’s priorities and what they’re, they’re focused on.

So, uh, thanks for sharing that Collins. Um, but, uh, coming back to, um, just prioritization tactics, Ken, what have you found to be really useful in your career progression?

[00:35:29] Ken Romano: Yeah, I could not agree more with. With what Melika said, that that’s a fantastic way. I’ll, I’ll take a slightly different angle. Um, since, uh, since she had that one covered, um, one is I really like to think about the balance between long term and short term projects.

And again, kind of from the customer perspective, if you’re working on this giant release, you don’t want the customer have to wait three, five, six months for the next thing. So I kind of always encourage our teams to just have these like little chip away projects that will [00:36:00] not. Distract them from the big thing, but will allow us to kind of keep putting more things in front of the users.

Um, the other thing that I really, that is, has been important for me, and I learned this from, um, an engineer I worked with years ago. is to just really give a lot of, um, kind of respect over to your engineering colleagues on things that they say are just 100 percent necessary in terms of infrastructure, stability, security, all of those sorts of things.

So whenever we’re going through road mapping, I’ll always go to my counterpart on the engineering team and just basically say, okay, you tell me what has to happen in the next six months. And then we kind of carve that time out. And that that’s his and his teams and the product team isn’t going to touch that.

Uh, and he’s, he’s never taken advantage of it before. Uh, if he does, if he does, uh, we’ll, we’ll have to have a little talk about it, but, uh, essentially it’s like, okay, I need these. 50 hours [00:37:00] in order to upgrade our security, upgrade our cloud services, whatever it might be. And then I know we have all of the rest of that time to go towards more functional things.

[00:37:09] Hannah Clark: All right. Interesting tactic for timeboxing. Um, so, uh, let’s move on a little bit to something a little bit more broad. Uh, but I think it’s going to be of a lot of interest to folks who are tuning in. Um, so Ken, what do you wish more individual contributors knew to do more of? And what do you wish that they would do less of?

[00:37:31] Ken Romano: I will, um, I’ll bring it back full circle and go towards the beginning of the conversation, which is just, um, Tell me your point of view. Um, we, uh, so we’re 100 percent remote company, uh, which has good days and bad days, but I think there are, once you find your kind of communication style, um, my CEO and I will regularly just shoot either voice memos or looms back and forth to each other kind of over the course of a week to try to [00:38:00] keep things a little bit async.

And I’ve encouraged people on, on, on my team that I work with to do that as well. What’s on your mind right now? Take yourself out of the day to day, I’m working on this specific feature, and just tell me where you think we should be in three to six months. Um, that’s probably the question I will ask ICs most often in order to kind of push the boundaries a little bit, is we’ll be talking about something and I’ll say, okay, just toss aside what you’re working on right now.

What should the product look like in six months? If you don’t have a point of view right now, Take a couple of days, you know, go for a long walk at lunch or something and go in front of a whiteboard and just think about, like, the direction you want to take it in. Um, so I would say that’s probably the thing I would love to see more of.

Um, the thing to see less of is, um, Uh, I don’t know offhand. Um, probably Milneka had long enough to think of one. I’ll pass it over to [00:39:00] her.

[00:39:02] Melika Hope: Um, what I would love to see more of, um, solving your own problems. Uh, and I don’t mean that as a manager we’re not here to help you solve your problems, because we absolutely are, but Um, delivering direct feedback to the individual directly instead of to your manager and hoping that they will kind of solve the situation or, um, just like getting your hands dirty.

Like, oh, There’s no reason why you couldn’t reach out to that person and ask that question, or why you couldn’t try to find that information. Those are some of the leadership traits that we talked about, but those are also just strong I see traits, and they help me see you as someone that can operate independently, which is what every manager is looking for.

As far as what I wish they would do less of, I hate to say it, but complaining. Maybe that sounds kind of harsh, but We talked at the beginning of the conversation that managers often act as therapists, and we absolutely do, and absolutely I [00:40:00] do use my manager sometimes as someone to vent to and talk to about the challenges that I’m going through, and it can be really cathartic, but once it becomes complaining, Um, and you become known as a complainer, that really makes your manager less excited about helping you and about helping you solve your problems.

Like, absolutely come to me with a problem, but also come to me with, these are the types of things that I’ve done to try to solve it. And don’t come to me just with a complaint unless it’s something that you’re actually interested in solving and, and taking some steps towards. Um, it really, it’s really taxing on the manager if they are seen as like that being their, their role to just receive complaints.

[00:40:44] Hannah Clark: Yeah. You know, I, I, okay. I, I agree with this and I think that there’s such a. There’s a bit of a difference between bringing an issue to your manager and complaining about an issue. Because if you’re complaining about an issue, you’re really just dumping it on them. You’re just saying like, this is something that I’m struggling with and now it’s your problem.

[00:41:00] Whereas like, you know, coming to the table with, I have this concern that’s based on X, Y factors. But here are some things that I think we could change to address that. It’s like a world of difference, you know. There’s like, at least there’s an intent to collaborate rather than just kind of. Um, so, uh, yeah, second, second and third that, um, I think

[00:41:19] Melika Hope: that, like, if it’s just a matter of keeping us informed, because I do tell folks, It can be like, no action required, just letting you know this happened, that I don’t consider a complaint, that is doing what you’re supposed to do, um, so I just want to call that out, that that’s not what I’m talking about either.

[00:41:33] Ken Romano: Yeah, so like setting the context up front, like I’ve done that before, like, listen, I just need to vent for 60 seconds, can I do that please? Like, you don’t have to do anything about it. Yeah. Or the, you know, hey, this is a heads up, don’t do anything, but I might come to you in three weeks and say, now, I need your help to do something.

[00:41:50] Hannah Clark: Yeah. Yeah. Ken, did you think of, uh, uh, something you want people to do less of?

[00:41:55] Ken Romano: No, just plus one on complaining. Okay.

[00:41:58] Hannah Clark: Okay. [00:42:00] We all agree. Complaining is a no bueno. Uh, okay. So, uh, we’re, uh, we’re kind of nearing our, um, Q and A period. So I just wanted to take a few moments to, uh, just chat about, uh, First of all, thank you everybody for joining us today.

Melika, Ken, thank you so much for making some time to be on this panel. This has already been such a great conversation. Um, we all, uh, are invited to, uh, attend our next event also, which is going to be held in March. Uh, and the event is going to be titled, Do All Roads Lead to the Feature Factory? And it’s going to be discussion about feature factories.

What are they? Are they inherently bad? Uh, how do we circumvent them if we are in a leadership position? How do we, um, operate within them if we find ourselves in a role? where we’re working on a feature factory. Um, so we’re going to be opening registrations very soon for that. We’ll be sending out some invitations to our newsletter subscribers.

So if you’re interested in the event and you’re not subscribed yet, make sure to subscribe to our newsletter so that you can get notified when registration opens for that. Um, and also before everyone takes off today, uh, Michael will be posting a link in the chat to our feedback form. We would [00:43:00] love to get some feedback on this session.

Um, we just really like to know what you thought of it. If there’s any topics that come to mind that you think would be valuable for you moving forward, we’re always looking to plan events that are going to be interesting, engaging, and useful for folks who take the time to be in them. So thank you for being here, and we’ll just get to your questions now.

So if you haven’t asked them yet, Make sure to throw them in the chat. You have a few minutes left. Um, we’ll start with, uh, a question here about resources. I don’t have the, um, answer or the asker of the question handy. Oh, from Sherry. Um, so, what are the best resources you’ve found to stay up to date on the latest trends and technology?

Um, Sherry’s focus specifically is on data security, but it could be on anything. Uh, as well as trends in product management and, um, what’s going on in the field. Uh, if either of you have one that comes to mind, please feel free to share. For you to shout it out,

[00:43:52] Ken Romano: I think,

[00:43:53] Hannah Clark: yeah, I was going to call it on you. Cause you’re the media guy.

[00:43:58] Ken Romano: I would, I would say, [00:44:00] um, uh, first is, uh, I’ve found a lot of value in, um, Lenny’s newsletter, um, which I think is like a great general resource, um, the newsletter and Slack group. And then it’s probably kind of on, on you to find there are, what I’m finding is there are a lot of really niche newsletters.

There are. Newsletters and podcasts about AI specifically in media. There’s probably ones around data security or things like that. So I don’t know those off the top of my head, but they, um, they’re, they just exist. Um, you can find a lot of LinkedIn contributors, um, that are posting a lot of things. So I would say just, uh, search Spotify.

I’ll, I’ll give a plug, uh, and search LinkedIn and try to find some of the content creators.

[00:44:45] Hannah Clark: Yeah, yeah, Ken and I were connected through Lenny’s community, so I plus one on Lenny’s. Yeah, um, Melika, do you have any, uh, go to resources?

[00:44:57] Melika Hope: Nope. I, uh, I try to [00:45:00] avoid, uh, work content outside of work. So, um, people ask me this question constantly and I, like, I do, I do occasionally read Lenny’s.

Um, I actually get a lot more out of, like, I’m less. It’s less fussed about trends that could be changing and all of that and more about where can I find real life experiences that can be inspirational or, um, you know, I had a manager at Twitter who would give me books to read that could, could be describing scenarios that are completely outside of technology, but maybe had a lesson that he thought I needed to learn at the time, be it about leadership or something else like that.

Um, yeah, I’m, I’m not a huge one on, um, reading or consuming a lot of, like, product specific stuff. Uh, I think we do enough of that at work.

Good for you.

[00:45:50] Hannah Clark: Yeah, that’s, honestly, that’s a good stance to tap. And, uh, and I am a big proponent of learning through discussion. Like, I think that in person events or, like, times when you can just talk to people [00:46:00] directly is just, I, personally, I get the most out of those kinds of conversations.

Like, right now! Um, we have a question from Irina. What’s your take on the role of AI in helping and hurting product managers? That’s a hot one too. Uh, Melika, do you want to start with that one?

[00:46:15] Melika Hope: Yeah, I mean, I, uh, if anything, I think its role has been outstated. Uh, like I don’t want to understate the impact it’s having on our society and the way a lot of things are going, but I do think Because it’s become such a buzzword and such a hot topic, what you see is a lot of organizations and folks trying to incorporate AI for AI’s sake and not thinking strategically about when it could be most useful.

So, I would, if you’re thinking about what your perspective on AI should be or how you should think about it, I would really push yourself on how to be super strategic. about that point of view and where it could really make a true impact, not where it could just get [00:47:00] thrown in and potentially just cause churn or more work.

It’s like, it can have huge environmental impacts and I don’t think it’s something that we need to use lightly unless, um, there’s a true case for it providing more value, um, And so that that’s that’s really how I think about it. That may not be a popular opinion in this space right now, but that’s my point of view.

[00:47:25] Ken Romano: For me, I’m seeing a lot of discussion about, um, using AI tools for prototyping. Like, oh, now a PM can create a website, a prototype of PRD without ever having a designer, without ever having a developer. And on one hand. For someone like me, who’s a little bit more left brain, couldn’t design his way out of a paper bag.

Like it, it’s helpful for me to just be able to put together a prototype. I think the scary part for me is now assuming that just product and technology is now easy. And there is such a big [00:48:00] gap between I’m going to create a prototype and I’m going to have a fully functioning scalable product that I can have users, real users on.

Um, and that’s the kind of chasm in between that, that I’m most worried about.

[00:48:13] Hannah Clark: Yeah, you know, we, uh, we just published a, um, a podcast episode with Greg Petroff on Tuesday, uh, kind of about this topic. Um, he was formerly, like he was just recently the CDO at Cisco and we were kind of talking about how, uh, there’s some kind of echoes of this AI.

Era that we kind of saw happen with the dot com bubble and also and I believe also with the onset of social media in which this like this new technology kind of emerges. No one really understands it or knows how to use it adequately. And then there’s kind of this panic around it. How do we use it correctly?

You know, what is it threatening? What is it enabling? And then that kind of settles into just. You know, we, we start to learn how these tools fit into our day to day. Um, so kind of my take on it right now is like, we just, we have to be looking at, um, where does it, where does it [00:49:00] Excel and expand our capacity, but what is it also bad at, what is it not really.

a good outlet for and what should we kind of limit our reliance on that technology for? Um, so yeah, I think right now we’re kind of in that like exploration space where we’re sort of trying to figure out like what exactly is that balance and how far do we want to push it and you know, where does it kind of fit into the, the uh, The atmosphere, the ecosystem, that’s probably a better word.

[00:49:25] Melika Hope: You articulated that much nicer than I did, Hannah.

[00:49:29] Hannah Clark: Thank you, it’s not my only opinion. So, this question is for Ken from Collins. He mentioned that he has an affinity for hiring journalists as a PM. What’s your advice for folks with no PM background, but might have program management experience that are interested in product management roles?

[00:49:46] Ken Romano: I mean, the best thing I could say there is that product, you know, in air quotes as such an amorphous role, you know, there’s, um, product managers that look like program managers and there’s product managers that look like engineers, there’s [00:50:00] product managers that look like, um, marketers. And so. I would say don’t necessarily think that you need to change what you’re already doing.

One opportunity might be, learn more about product management. The other opportunity might be, find the organizations where program management is very similar to product management.

[00:50:23] Hannah Clark: Cool. Um, then, uh, I’ve got one from Ludwig, um, how do we, uh, sorry. Oh, oh, this is an interesting one. I’ll toss this one to Melika.

How do you recommend building your personal brand as a product professional without coming across as either I alone built this or I was along for the ride?

[00:50:42] Melika Hope: Hmm. Uh, I mean, I think there’s definitely a happy medium of like, and, and as some of the interviews, people, folks frequently, um, this is something that I always ask about, like, what specifically was your role.

So I think you can really articulate, like, [00:51:00] I had this role in this project. If all of your examples are things you were just along for the ride for, I think that one will be a lot trickier, but like, Even if you were not the main driver, there were probably components that you were driving. So, you know, I drove the visual experience for such and such thing that so and so other person strategized on, or I contributed to this team and led this small component of it.

I think it’s really important to be true to that role, um, both from an honesty perspective and folks. will often see your public profiles and, uh, you want to be able to like really accurately represent like how those things went. But I think that, um, yeah, I think just like finding that balance and really being proud of and showcasing the things that you specifically did.

And then over time, those pieces should ideally grow in responsibility and impact and showing that growth as well.

[00:51:55] Hannah Clark: Interesting. And actually, just on this topic, because I think building a personal professional brand is [00:52:00] It’s kind of one of those things. It’s kind of a sticky topic because people don’t like talking about themselves or sometimes they really like talking about themselves.

Um, do you guys have any, you know, recommendations for personal brand building? Each of, each of you kind of have a little bit of that. So,

[00:52:17] Melika Hope: Anyone have any? Be as authentic as possible. Do not try to have someone else’s brand. Um, and, lean into the pieces that really represent you, be they things that, um, might be a little spicy or things that, you know, you’re super proud of, like not, I mean, I guess in, in tech, and I work for a music company now saying I listened to Megan Thee Stallion may not be like a taboo thing, but it was like 10 years ago.

Um, and like I have a lot of strong opinions about diversity and like other topics that 15 years ago when I was getting my start in product may not have been as popular or may have seemed a bit [00:53:00] risky, but that that did help me establish a unique brand because it was super authentic. Um, and the mistake I see a lot of folks making is thinking they need to fit into some typical tech mold, um, that is not true to them.

And that, that will never serve you effectively.

[00:53:19] Ken Romano: Yeah, for me, it’s been trying to figure out, like, almost trying, I think I had a lot of imposter syndrome, and for a while I was trying to sound smarter than I was, uh, and so yeah, the authenticity of, um, hey, here’s what I worked on, and, you know, I didn’t send a rocket to Mars, but it was still pretty cool, and here’s what I learned from it.

Um, and just being kind of comfortable with what I’m able to accomplish, what my team is able to accomplish, bringing in a little bit of personality into, from my interests outside of work, um, things like that.

[00:53:49] Melika Hope: Yeah, I’m And to that end, I think, like, Um, acknowledging what you’re not as good at. Like when I inter, if I talk to companies now, I’ll often say like, I am not a [00:54:00] technical person.

I don’t have a technical background. So that’s what you’re looking for. I am not your woman. Here’s what I am awesome at though. And that ensures you’re getting opportunities that are authentic to your person as well. But I think it helps people trust you. If you can acknowledge like both sides.

[00:54:15] Hannah Clark: Yeah. Okay.

I, I love this conversation and I do want to chime in like a couple two cents that I think is valuable from my experience, um, doing the podcast, uh, starting out with that. I knew that I was going to be talking to people who are so much more advanced in their careers and new things that I didn’t know.

And there’s a lot of pressure initially, uh, maybe self imposed that I thought I was going to have to sort of meet them where they’re at, but kind of to Ken’s earlier point, there’s a lot of power in curiosity and understanding that you don’t have to be the expert in every. Field and you don’t have to match everybody’s energy for where they’re at in their career.

There’s a lot of, um, a lot of power in, and relationship building potential and just, uh, knowing where your skillset ends and asking questions and, and being, um, just. Um, you know, exercising humility and being, [00:55:00] uh, open to sharing that vulnerability and learning from it. Um, I, I don’t think we’ll have, we might have time for this one question.

Sasha asks, are you still creating roadmaps? I feel like there’s maybe some more nuance to that. Maybe I don’t know if she means if you’re still creating roadmaps at this stage in your career or if organizations are still using that tactic, maybe she’s at one that doesn’t.

[00:55:23] Melika Hope: My organization is absolutely creating roadmaps.

Like my PMs are creating roadmaps. They may not look the same that they did when I was I seeing, but, um, I do not personally maintain any roadmaps, but my, my, um, PMs absolutely do.

[00:55:38] Ken Romano: Yeah, similar. I would say lately we spend, because things change so quickly, we probably spend a little bit more time ref refining like strategic pillars, which is where I, I spend a lot of my time on.

We’re going to solve these problems and why. And then the roadmaps tend to be a lot more fluid.

[00:55:55] Hannah Clark: Well, well, thank you guys for fitting that one in, uh, and that concludes [00:56:00] our session today. Uh, thank you guys so much for the questions. That was a great conversation. A lot of nuggets to pull out of that one, uh, that I think will be helpful for everybody, no matter where you’re at in your career.

Um, please also take a second to fill out the survey that we posted in the chat. Uh, it’s only a few questions, so it’ll only take a few moments. Uh, we really appreciate it. It really helps us out to make these sessions even more valuable. Uh, and of course, another big thank you to our panelists for volunteering their time today.

Melika and Ken, you guys have been. So awesome. Um, great chats and, uh, panelists. Thank you. Uh, or, uh, sorry, not panelists, attendees, participants, that’s, that’s, I’m talking about. Thank you guys as well for, uh, making some time during your day. Uh, we hope to see you for our next panel in March and have a great weekend.

Thanks everyone.

[00:56:45] Ken Romano: Thank you.

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